19 Comments
User's avatar
dyb5786's avatar

IYH Essay for essay the best value on substack. FWIW when I analyzed in 2010 the Flash Crash, and talked to HFT guys, and realized retirement funds were being fleeced by exactly the same predictable on-this-date-we-do-X engineered liquidity arbitrage, I was told the retirement funds guys deserved it for being so dumb and predictable. It was not seen as affecting millions of Americans, but a game of slow-witted dumb fund managers vs hypersmart algo guys.

FWIW Credit Suisse in 2015 actually published several datasheets showing the exact 'commands' in Dark Pools and elsewhere the 'commands' used by HFT for this algo market manipulations. All out in the open, this is how shameless this is.

Devansh's avatar

That's messed up

Devansh's avatar

Space x literally spoke to Nasdaq about index inclusion as a condition for listing in there. So this isn't just the indexes operating like this.

Also the IPO is oversubscribed because of the forced liquidity. Refer to DBs comment on the same.

Ken's avatar

Would you have cared if Elon was not involved? Did you complain about Google being controlled by the founders in the same manner?

Devansh's avatar

The article is about forced index buying not the corporate structure

Blafasel42's avatar

he will steal? By offering the best growth potential on the planet? Interesting take...

Devansh's avatar

You're free to invest your money then. But he shouldn't be forcing indexes to accommodate his stock

Ken's avatar
6hEdited

I agree with you. It is a very bad idea to include unproven, unprofitable, cash burning new companies in indexes. That defeats the original intent and purposes of the indexes.

But you are barking up the wrong tree. Elon is not forcing anyone. S&P500 refused to change its rules. But other indexes are all too eager to include SpaceX in their indexes.

The IPO is over subscribed by 300%. Everyone wants in. Probably an indication of a bad idea.

Devansh's avatar

Space x literally spoke to Nasdaq about index inclusion as a condition for listing in there. So this isn't just the indexes operating like this. Also the IPO is oversubscribed because of the forced liquidity. Refer to DBs comment on the same.

Ken's avatar

Well, that's the point, NASDAQ wants the listing lol. They could have said no.

George Carlin's avatar

Because NASDAQ wanted the $$$

smu's avatar

If the growth potential is so good then why all the shenanigans?

Ken's avatar

What shenanigans? You mean Elon retaining control? Did you know Google has the same control structure?

Devansh's avatar

The forced index buying shenanigans ken.

Ken's avatar

That is the index companies being greedy. S&P500 refused to change its rule.

Devansh's avatar

I don't disagree that the indexes are at fault..that's why the actions focus on them.

But there's also a lot of lobbying and manipulation going on SV side..since I'm a tech writer, I'm focusing on that.

Ken's avatar

I am looking forward to your equally enthusiastic focusing on Open AI and Antrophic IPO inclusion in those same indexes too.

George Carlin's avatar

Xai - part of the Space X “bundle” is hemorrhaging ~1 billion monthly and erasing profitability of the rocket and satellite divisions resulting in a net multibillion dollar loss. At the same time forcing funds to use 401ks, pension funds to own overpriced garbage before price discovery.

Before AI bubble pops. Open ai & Anthropic both are in a rush to scalp Americans as well.

So way less than cool